After an awkward first date Queen (Jodie Turner-Smith), a self-assured criminal defence lawyer is sure that it’ll be the last time she meets up with Slim (Daniel Kaluuya), an unambitious working-class citizen who struggles to eat silently. On their way home the pair are pulled over by a gun-wielding white police officer and in a tragic turn of events, Queen and Slim become most wanted fugitives in a state that still has the death penalty.
Daniel Kaluuya has been in a league of his own since his break out role in Jordan Peele’s 2017 horror movie Get Out. He has since gone on to star in the record-breaking Black Panther and Widows. Jodie Turner-Smith is a fresh face bursting on the Hollywood scenes with Queen & Slim being her first feature film.
As I was introduced to Jodie I noticed that her gracious and regal aura filled the room and her bright pink eye shadow really popped. Mid-way through our introduction Daniel Kaluuya bounced into the room with such a charming energy, that instantly put me at ease, you’d almost be forgiven for forgetting that he’s a worldwide acclaimed actor.
As they took their seats, Jodie sat with a posture so straight that I instantly checked myself and readjusted my natural slouch, whereas Daniel was more relaxed. He tipped his chair back, propped his trainers on the coffee table while picking from the selection of berries
Congratulations on Queen and Slim, it’s such a beautiful film that’s both raw and gripping. How did you know these roles where right for you?
Daniel: I didn’t, I don’t have the words for it, it’s more here (points to his heart) I don’t overthink those kinds of decisions. I try to study what I like and what I don’t like. What I can do and what I don’t do, away from scripts and then the rest can come through. I know that my gut instinct is informed so I just trust it and we’re here. I also think I was at the right age and I thought I could bring something to it.
Jodie: I think as a woman, and myself the work I had done before Queen and Slim, you know, I’d never seen a character that was so interesting and dynamic, complex and three dimensional. I really fell in love with the script. I found out about the project from a press release that said, who was involved which what got me to seek the script out. Already just like, whoa, Daniel Kaluuya is doing this and I’m a big fan of Daniel, then it’s Melina’s (Matsouka) first feature, Lena’s (Waithe) first feature and she’d written the script. To me, it was just like a hot project and by the time they were looking for Queen, every black actress was interested. I think often as women, we don’t always get to be as interesting as Queen is so I jumped at that opportunity.
So the movie begins with Queen and Slim on a first date that isn’t exactly going well, what advice would you give to someone on bad dates?
Daniel: If it’s at a halfway point settle the bill and leave, it’s only downhill from there, say its a family emergency.
Jodie: Yeah, have a reason. I also want to say that I think their date was that bad. They just were like obviously not a match once they sat down but I don’t think it was terrible.
While on the run the chemistry between Queen and Slim gradually grew and felt so real, how did you two build a relationship off-screen to reflect this?
Daniel: Jodie bought me alkaline water, on the shoot she taught me about it and I felt like my life was a lie, that society has poisoned me. I had been drinking tap water like the peasant and renegade I am. She was breaking out all these videos of different brands of water and all the pH tests. I’ve learnt that it’s different in England and that the same brand could have a different process.
Jodie: We also had the good fortune of being able to shoot most of it in chronological order, which is very helpful because we got to be on the journey with them as we were growing and getting to know each other. We were doing that with the character, but also it’s like very easy to have chemistry with Daniel.
The film has such an emotional storyline, was there ever a point where it got too much and how did you support each other?
Jodie: I don’t know how I supported him, but he’s supported me daily. He has the experience and knowledge whereas I knew nothing. There would be so many times where I was lost, scared, confused and I didn’t want to mess up. Daniel really took me under his wing and explained things to me. When you’re doing something like this you’re so open and sensitive to everything, you can take on things you don’t need to and Daniel is so balanced and good at not doing that. He’d really support me, give me advice and explain things.
Daniel: There was some dark days, the film depends on us and so there was probably days that Jodie didn’t realise I was down or demoralised but her energy and positivity in certain situations would really pick me up. I like her fight that she has naturally. Like, let’s finish this night shoot because certain night days were just tough. I think Jodie’s natural optimism was invaluable in this process, if it was anyone else it would’ve been difficult to continue in that way.
Jodie: Also when you’re working with somebody who stays in character it really inspired me to stay there too. Not checking out and going on your phone, just staying in it together. It really felt like we were just in it together and that was everything.
You mentioned they were tough days emotionally and physically. So how did you mentally and physically prepare yourself going into the role?
Daniel: Write everything everything someone says about you, what you say about yourself then write the fact. In-between everything someone says about you and everything you say about yourself, is where you live. You have to kind of signal both, so you’re able to give a very convivted and ambiguous performance. It’s very decisive but it’s open to interpretation because it allows us to come in. I feel like it makes it more interesting.
Jodie: I think there was an element of the character that life prepared me for. I was really just mining from life and emotional experience, other than that, I still I feel like I’m learning, which is why the advice that he (Daniel) gave me was always very invaluable. So my preparation was staying as open so I could soak in what was happening around me and stay present.
The recent discussion of Black British actors playing Black American roles sort of started with you Daniel, do you think some American actors feel threatened by the talent and skill Black British actors possess?
Daniel: No, I don’t want to frame it in that way. The reality of the situation is this, when I go America I get love. I’ve got family Chicago. I’ve been gone since I started acting professionally I get love. Florida when I was a kid I get love. So on a real level, whether I was in Cleveland, Atlanta, Chicago it’s always love and I feel like there needs to be a platform in the media space that needs to be some sort of narrative in order to justify someone being different. As Black people we just get reduced to this and that, we don’t get seen as three dimensional people. I understand that narrative is out there and it probably comes to me, but I know the reasons why I do what I do and I just believe in that. There’s so many skilled Black American actors like Brian Tyree Henry, Corey Hawkins or Shameik Moore, they’re incredible artists.
Jodie: I agree and I think that these things only continue to have life because social media tends to amplify negativity and it’s the negativity from people who aren’t even in business. It’s just another area in which they’re trying to oppress Black people and pit us against each other. The talent is overflowing but whats not overflowing is availability of roles. We’re finally getting to a place where we’re not having to struggle as hard to tell our own stories, there is space for all of us.
Were there are any specifics in the characters of Queen and Slim that resonated with you upon first reading? In what ways did these characters feel universally Black to you?
Daniel: How interlocked his identity was with faith felt very universal, in a very black universal way. I think him as a person, just him being content, I’ve seen guys like that, that are just good. They’ve got a lovely family when they find a girl they get married real quick and now they’re out the game. I like that element of him and also the dynamics between Queen and Slim are very Black. Just the way Lena (Waithe) decided to design and write the characters felt authentic.
Jodie: Definitely as a black woman there’s this idea of putting on a face for the world and hiding your pain, Black women around the world understand that. Also this idea of needing, having to be excellent and not really being allowed to just be yourself. I thought that was a universal feeling that many of us can relate to, not matter where we come from. Having a messed up family is also an issue that everyone can deal with whether youre Black, White or Asian, we all know that when you’ve got skeletons in your closet and messed up things happen in your family, its a human issue.
What was it like working with Lena Waithe and Melina Matsoukas, what difference did they bring from the other writers and directors you’ve worked with?
Daniel: Lena and Melina are force of nature to be honest, they’re really so dynamic, they care so much and they understood the gravity of this film for them, for people like them and the people that come after them, that’s probably what was different. Melina’s obsession with detail was inspiring like (turns to Jodie) how many times did she move your hair? She needed the hair to be a certain way and you can see it in the first shot with the waitress. That’s a considered decision, the hair, and the clothes, who they cast. I judge films by the first shot and whether I’m in safe hands and I just knew I was good there, it was really inspiring.
Jodie: Working with two powerful Black women, that’s different. For me in my small amount of time I’ve been working, getting the opportunity to have an experience like that. Like you hear Lena and Melina talk about the film, it was Black as hell, Blackity Black. That was a cool experience to be part of as well. You felt it in everything, it was on the set, it was just very unique to anything I have ever done before and it was really empowering.
Throughout the movie there’s also a message about legacy and how they want to be remembered. I was wondering what do you want your legacy to be?
Daniel: I’ve got a saying for the next decade, we do what we want and then we die. That’s what it is, I think you’ve just got to inform what you want. What’s outside myself and what I leave behind is none of my business, I’ll be dead. I’m out here trying to do as much as I can and trying to make myself and my people happy, then I’ll die, which will be fun too.
Jodie: I guess if you had asked me a year ago, I would say that what matters to me is that I’m proud of what I’ve done right now, in this moment. Now obviously I’m going to leave someone in this world after me and so I definitely want to make sure that I’m leaving a space that this person can thrive in. The planet, the environment all of it and that’s what I want my legacy to be. Leaving things better than I found it, whether it’s energetically with people or that space I inhabit and create where I’m going to lay my roots in this world.
Queen and Slim is in cinemas now
